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TOPIC: Band marking for Aerospce primary made with Oasis

Band marking for Aerospce primary made with Oasis 2 weeks 1 day ago #3084

Really struggled to put colored bands on oasis wrapped and sintered primaries (26, 28 AWG size)

Bought a banding machine but even with preheat and post heat having issues with smearing. Machine works on FEP primaries fairly well just not with the wrap.

Can't band in line with wrap and sinter op because bander needs high minimum speed.

Any suggestions?
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Band marking for Aerospce primary made with Oasis 2 weeks 7 hours ago #3085

Hi Christopher,

Wow, there are a couple of serious but separate issues here,
  • 1 The wrapping and sintering line speed is too slow for the banding machine so tandemization seems not possible.
  • 2 Because the banding operation is now a cold off-line operation, ink drying is an issue on the Oasis sintered tape and consequently, ink smearing is an issue.
The root cause problem however is the incompatibly of the banding process and the wrapping and sintering process.

The solutions that must be taken are as follows:
  • a - Hopefully you had a process specification attached to your purchase specification. If you did properly define your wrapping and sintering process and the inks that you intended to use then the issue is clearly the incompatibility of the two processes.
  • b - The ink banding minimum speed is obviously too fast. Can the manufacturer of the banding machine slow the banding machine down so that it becomes compatible with your wrapping and sintering process?
  • c - The ink smearing is the result of cold application of the ink banding process. The drying of the ink is a function of the the time it takes to evaporate the ink solvent. Can the ink supplier along with the printer manufacturer come to a modification of the ink without clogging the banding machine?
Please Note
FEP - Fluorinated Ethylene Propylene is a "Teflon" fluorocarbon resin and is a registered trademark of the DuPont Company. It is a melt extrudable fluorocarbon resin.

Polyimide tape (Kapton & Oasis) Oasis 200TRT515 is a heat sealable composite film that is made using DuPont high tensile strength polyimide film and DuPont fluoropolymer designed to meet the normal weight wire requirements of
AS22759/80-92. 200TRT515 film has a unique balance of excellent electrical, thermal durability, and chemical resistance properties, including improved hydrolytic stability, that make it ideal for the next generation of aerospace wire designs.
Regards,
Peter J. Stewart-Hay Principal
Stewart-Hay Associates
www.Stewart-Hay.com
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Last Edit: 1 week 6 days ago by Peter J Stewart-Hay.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Mr Christopher Howells

Band marking for Aerospce primary made with Oasis 2 weeks 7 hours ago #3086

a - Hopefully you had a process specification attached to your purchase specification. If you did properly define your wrapping and sintering process and the inks that you intended to use then the issue is clearly the incompatibility of the two processes.

Dealing with specs that are extremely old that have been updated to allow things like Oasis but not necessarily vetted for compatibility[color=#0044bb of that material with the process of banding marking.

Dealing with banding marking in general is a pain it was prevalent 50 years ago but almost entirely replaced by inkjet, and laser marking. Only found one vendor still making banding equipment and they seem to be subject matter experts but are struggling to help solve our problem as well. They have specified inks that work well for FEP which isn't the same as Oasis in chemical composition but is pretty darn close. Dealing with DuPont directly and they aren't helpful in sharing information about what inks we should be using either.


b - The ink banding minimum speed is obviously too fast. Can the manufacturer of the banding machine slow the banding machine down so that it becomes compatible with your wrapping and sintering process?

It's 1970's technology and controls to match. Wheels spinning throw ink at the cable from both sides, requires a minimum speed to achieve the centrifugal force to throw the ink.

c - The ink smearing is the result of cold application of the ink banding process. The drying of the ink is a function of the the time it takes to evaporate the ink solvent. Can the ink supplier along with the printer manufacturer come to a modification of the ink without clogging the banding machine?

We are preheating the material prior to inking to help adhesion and solvent burn-off and heating again post inking but we aren't quite there yet. Problem with experimenting with different solvent levels is that at the speeds we have to run at every experiment we run consumes a costly amount of Oasis and I am hoping to find someone with some expertise to help narrow down the experiments.
Last Edit: 1 week 6 days ago by Peter J Stewart-Hay.
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Band marking for Aerospce primary made with Oasis 1 week 6 days ago #3087

Hello Again Christopher,

AS I recall, the best band marking machines were from Medek & Schörner ( www.medek.at/en/ ) in Austria. Is the
Model RS 70 the machine you purchased?

There is no need to school me on how a ring marking machine works as I have some 17 years experience with them.

Are you using an ink they recommended?
Regards,
Peter J. Stewart-Hay Principal
Stewart-Hay Associates
www.Stewart-Hay.com
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Last Edit: 1 week 6 days ago by Peter J Stewart-Hay.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mr Christopher Howells

Band marking for Aerospce primary made with Oasis 1 week 6 days ago #3088

Didn't mean to patronize, appreciate your help. This is new territory for me and for most of the people I have contacted so far aren't aware of it.

Model we bought is VACON NX4C20030C Im sending picture, looks reasonable congruent to the RJ-70. We are using the ink the manufacturer recommends and have a factory tech back out Monday and Tuesday to try to resolve. Will keep you posted on my progress,

IMG_20170804_091726.jpg


IMG_20170804_091641147.jpg


IMG_20170804_091649602.jpg
Last Edit: 1 week 2 days ago by Peter J Stewart-Hay.
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Band marking for Aerospce primary made with Oasis 1 week 2 days ago #3091

Danfoss A/S is an electric motor control company and they purchased VACON in about 2015. They are not well known or used in the wire and cable industry. See:

drives.danfoss.com/products/vacon/#/

The ring marker itself perhaps came from some other ring marking company. If this is true, you may have purchased the wrong ring marker and it may have been sold to you under false pretenses.. If so, our immediate recommendation would be to return your marker for a full refund.
Regards,
Peter J. Stewart-Hay Principal
Stewart-Hay Associates
www.Stewart-Hay.com
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Last Edit: 1 week 2 days ago by Peter J Stewart-Hay.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
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